The Freq Show

34. How conflict can lead to getting on the same frequency as your partner

• Sam Thurmond & Jaclyn Steele Thurmond • Season 1 • Episode 34

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In this episode of The Freq Show, Jaclyn and Sam dive into a candid discussion about their recent challenges in both real estate and podcasting. Jaclyn confronts Sam about his approach to securing their next deal, while Sam challenges the effectiveness of the podcast in their busy lives. With playful banter, they humorously call each other "bische," reflecting their strong dynamic as partners in both business and life. Ultimately, they share the valuable insights they gained from their candid conversation and how it has influenced their next steps. Join them as they leave you with a thought-provoking question: What uncomfortable question could lead to greater clarity in your own business?


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Jaclyn:

Hello and welcome to The Freq Show. I'm Jaclyn Steele Thurmond. This is my husband, Sam Thurmond.

Sam:

Hello, hello.

Jaclyn:

This is episode 34, and today we're going to be talking about how conflict can lead to getting on the same frequency as your partner.

Sam:

Yeah, this is uh, I think this will be a good one, because we talked about this before. It's an actual experience that we just had this past week, and after we had these conversations, we were like, man, this would be a really good topic to discuss and basically just have the conversation that we had last week, yeah,

Jaclyn:

So I think we should just dive in essentially, and we're just going to lay it all out on the line, right?

Sam:

I mean, I think so, I don't know what you're about to say.

Jaclyn:

Well, I challenged you last week and I think I pissed you off a little bit and I was a little afraid that I hurt your feelings when I said I think our approach to getting our next real estate deal is not working and I think maybe my delivery could have been a little bit better and maybe I should have prefaced my delivery with like "hey, can we talk about this for a minute?", rather than just blurting it out, um, which sometimes I'm really good about doing, and then sometimes I just am off the cuff.

Sam:

I see I disagree with you. I don't, I think that just because something like pisses me off or catches me off guard in the moment. But ultimately sometimes I think that's necessary and we've had that, we've talked about that before on the show where sometimes it's necessary to kind of shake the other person awake, whereas if you're coming with too many pads on, it doesn't really have the same effect. So I kind of don't think you approached it the wrong way at all. I actually think that it's good and I've given you permission to, you know, basically speak to me that way and call me out when you feel like there's something that needs to be called out.

Jaclyn:

One. It's always coming from a place of love and a common goal, and that we want to optimize our lives and challenge ourselves and make a lot of money and do a lot of really cool things and make an impact on the world.

Jaclyn:

So, it's all coming from a good place, but my hesitance is rooted in something my mom told me on our wedding day, where she said whatever you do, don't break his spirit. And so I come at things wanting to make sure that I am aware of your feelings and aware of how you process things and how things affect you. And you're an extremely tough dude, Like you're a man in every sense. But I also know that you're a human, and so I. You have told me in the past that sometimes I can be I don't know that you would say aggressive in my rhetoric, but I can be very direct, and sometimes it can be um, it can cause friction between us, and you can be too with me.

Sam:

Yeah, um, I'm trying to recall when I may have said that about you.

Jaclyn:

Well, sometimes, you, you've just said, like my tone or the way I say something. My intention may be one thing, but the way that I'm saying it and my tone in saying it makes it sound a little bit more aggressive or accusatory.

Sam:

Yeah, I think that there are moments that there are different scenarios and and different um you know, issues that pop up that I don't really feel like apply to this conversation, because I feel like this conversation is more business partner hat than it is, you know husband and wife hat.

Jaclyn:

Okay, okay, I get that. I respect that.

Sam:

For those other things. Yeah, I think sometimes you need to check your tone a little bit, because I don't think that it's necessarily all that fair?

Jaclyn:

Yeah, I think you're right.

Sam:

And the same is true for me, but um.

Jaclyn:

You're usually pretty,

Sam:

But the the point is is the point I'm making is, you uh, it's...

Jaclyn:

h sat across the table from you and I was like, "Hey, we need to have a business conversation. Something isn't working because we're not getting our next deal" and you are in charge of getting our next deal, which is our livelihood for the most part, and so if it's not working, we've got to fix it.

Sam:

Yeah, yeah, and which was a total fair call out by you, and I think you need to know that you are free to do that whenever you're having those feelings, because I don't want it to become something. Whenever you're having those feelings because I don't I don't want it to become something, where you're kind of looking at me sideways Like what are you doing? Um, this isn't working. You're doing it all wrong. You need to switch something up.

Jaclyn:

Yeah, and I don't like a passive, aggressive approach. that's I insecure I'm also insecure people.

Sam:

And I'm also not saying that you were right, like in what you were saying it was perfectly fine for you to say, and I invite that, because being challenged like that is a good thing, because it forces me to be like, well, oh shit, am I like, like, am I doing the right thing? Like, am I doing all the things that I should be doing? Because then you know, I took the next half of that day and kind of went through well, I could do this different, I could do that different, we could add on this. And I also had some conversations outside of you and I just to kind of run by, uh what what I was currently doing? Like I talked to Travis and he just went to the Hormozy thing, so he was all pumped up on Hormozy, which was awesome.

Jaclyn:

Nose strip ready to go yeah.

Sam:

Yeah, but bounced it off of him and thought about it even more, but the conclusion I came back to is no, I'm doing what I need to do, it just takes time. And when we step back and we think, when we really started really pushing to get this next project hasn't been that long. Um, it takes time. It's a very competitive market. We don't want to get ourselves in a situation. We only want to buy good deals. I've bought some bad deals in the past and it is. It really sucks when you have to dig yourself out of those holes, but I don't want that to make me too passive on or I need to. You know, in this market you still need to be aggressive and go after the opportunity and take risks.

Jaclyn:

And I think that was my concern, is I didn't want us to be passive.

Sam:

Yeah, Well, I think you wanted, you were looking for more like channels to generate deals, which I don't think is a bad idea, but when I kind of when I was assessing everything and everything I was looking at was, there's all this additional stuff that we could do but one, over the last seven, eight years.

Sam:

I've done pretty much all of those things and the return hasn't been there. So you might get something on it. But how much energy are you going to put into that approach, versus if I just focus that energy on the things that I know work and have worked and continue to trust that those are going to pan out? That's what I need to do. So really, what it was was just a really good check. You were able to share your concerns, share your perspective, which was completely valid, and it forced me to check what I was doing to make sure that that was the right path that we should take.

Sam:

And then we kind of came back together and discussed it a little more and, I think, got on the same page and ultimately we got on the same frequency as far as that particular topic goes.

Jaclyn:

Uhmmn, and I think an interesting dynamic that we have, which I think is what makes us really great business partners and life partners, is that pioneer builder sort of metaphor, where I'm naturally a pioneer, I want to push forward, I want to like make stuff happen. I have sometimes like shiny object syndrome, where I'm like I have an idea, I'm going to create it, now I'm ready to move on. I have an idea, I want to create it, now I'm ready to move on. And you, which I need, you are a builder. You go deep, you go wide, you like really go into all the details of things, whereas I am like I just want to be creating all the time. I don't really want to do anything else.

Sam:

Yeah. YShout out to my buddy, Chad Bonawitz, for the whole pioneer/developer... Yeah, it's true, and that is the perfect match. When you have someone who is more pioneer, that's going to kind of you kind of think of the pioneer as the one that kind of knocks down the walls, and then the developer is the one that actually, once you get to that other side, they kind of set up and say, okay, this is what the opportunity is and this is how we capitalize on it. And if you let a pioneer just kind of run free, they're just going to keep going and they leave a really large wake behind them. And they leave a really large wake behind them. So it's good to have us be somewhat opposites on that. I think we both can do both.

Jaclyn:

Oh, we can definitely both. We can definitely both do both.

Sam:

Yeah, oh, we can definitely do that for sure, for sure, but so anyway, yeah, that was that topic. Any more on that one, or do you want to?

Jaclyn:

No, I feel like that was really important for us to have that conversation. You know, as entrepreneurs, we generally get like a good chunk of a paycheck several times a year. So we have to always be thinking ahead and we have to always be thinking, especially in our line of work in real estate. You know, sometimes projects take four, six, eight, nine months, maybe even a year. So we have to constantly be making sure that we're prospecting and doing what we need to do to make sure that we're okay. You know, six months from now. Yeah, consistency is a challenge.

Sam:

Consistency is a challenge and you know, as we've progressed in kind of the projects that we're doing and the projects, the price point for the projects become higher. We take that step and then, as we're, we take that step and then, while we're doing it, we're kind of like learning all the ins and outs of that uh of of doing something at that scale. So I'll speak for myself. I was scared to do and add another project on top of it at that scale before we had actually gone through a cycle?

Jaclyn:

I was too, no, I was too

Sam:

And uh proven that out. So and that happens no matter what.

Jaclyn:

Which we crushed.

Sam:

Yes, we did.

Jaclyn:

We crushed,

Sam:

And that happens no matter what.

Jaclyn:

But it was scary.

Sam:

So, now, we're at the point where it's not that big of a deal, because we know what to expect, we know how much money to raise, we know, you know, how to over budget for everything always.

Jaclyn:

Yeah, we're much more capable of taking on a large scale luxury project, but at the same time, we also don't want to purchase one just to purchase one. We want to make sure that we're getting a real deal and it's going to benefit everybody involved.

Sam:

Yeah, and we just missed out on a deal literally right before we started this episode, because we were unwilling. We were unwilling to go above what our spreadsheet said, where we needed to be, what our top was, and I'm perfectly fine with that.

Jaclyn:

Yeah, I have peace about that one too. I think it was going to be. I think there was a chance that we would have done really well on it, but there was also a very good chance that it would have been so close that we would have just broke even, and then we'd be wasting four to six months of effort.

Sam:

And that will leave space for an even better project with higher returns

Jaclyn:

And I know it's coming.

Sam:

Yeah.

Jaclyn:

I know it's coming.

Sam:

Yeah, and so the takeaway for me was to just keep doing what I'm doing and be consistent with it, because the way that I farm deals is, for the most part, through wholesalers and through real estate agents, and you help with that as well, and so there's not like we're not. We don't have a big marketing budget where we're sending letters or cold calling or have a whole, you know, cold call team or anything like that. So it's hard to put a dollar figure on. Ok, if I spend $10,000, it gets me one deal or two deals, whatever it is, and I know I just have to pay that money in order and then that deal will ultimately come. For me it's more just time and energy and analyzing deals and talking to people and measuring. Shout out to Trev again. My cost of acquisition, I think, is what it's called, is measured in time and energy versus dollars.

Jaclyn:

We love Trev, so much, but also one of the most successful men I know who is in real estate said to us a few weeks ago it's a numbers game. You have to look at hundreds of deals before you're going to find one that really pencils out, or, in our case, case spreadsheets out.

Sam:

Yeah.

Jaclyn:

So once we had that chat and I heard you come back with that kind of answer, I had peace about the way we were moving forward.

Sam:

What it reinforced for me, what I was doing, it's always good to check your, have a fast feedback loop as Elon talks about to where you make sure you're getting feedback quickly on what you're doing, to make sure you're not wasting your time or wasting energy. So that was good for me, to force me to confirm that, and for you. I think you were able to get those thoughts off your chest and then feel comfortable again with the way we were approaching it.

Jaclyn:

Yeah, yep, I do. Okay, now you tell me how you challenged me last week, because you, you came at me too.

Sam:

Yeah, and I don't know. Maybe I was looking for something to challenge you with after you challenged me, who knows? But um,

Jaclyn:

little tit for tat.

Sam:

Yeah, no, it really wasn't but, um, it really wasn't that. But, as you, as you, it just happened that way. But as the you know, the listeners know, we created um the Freq app and and we're in the phase where we've, we've, uh, launched it. It's more of a soft launch. We're still kind of

Jaclyn:

Working out some kinks.

Sam:

And everything, but it is.

Jaclyn:

Although Version 2.0 is pretty awesome.

Sam:

Yeah, it's great. It's so cool, it's so cool.

Jaclyn:

Yeah. I'm so proud of it.

Sam:

But we haven't really put the gas pedal down on the marketing plan just yet, because we haven't had the time. Yeah, but we also wanted to work the kinks out before we did that.

Jaclyn:

100%.

Sam:

But you and I were talking and we were talking about I brought up this podcast and um, a big part of the marketing is talking about the app on on the podcast, um, and I brought up the, my concerned, my concern that that was going to be the most effective way of marketing the app and I was hesitant to do that because you put so much work, time and work into the podcast.

Jaclyn:

Yeah, I was ready to go. I was like ooh.

Sam:

But again it's having the business partner hat on. It's the conversations that you have to have.

Jaclyn:

It's important that you ask me these questions and so, yeah, his question was is creating all of these episodes for The Freq Show the best way to get the Freq app out, and should we potentially pause The Freq Show if we need to, to focus more on the app? And to me, The Freq Show and the Freq app are like brother and sister and it's so vertically integrated for me.

Sam:

Yeah, um, well, and that's not the only reason we have the podcast. We have the podcast just because we, you know, we like having the conversations and like sharing.

Jaclyn:

Yeah, we like sharing what works for us.

Sam:

Yeah but I think the the crux of where the, where the rub was and where the discomfort was, was I knew that the podcast is near and dear to you, as it is to me, but reality is, is you put more work into the podcast than I do. My focus is more on finding real estate deals, yours is more on the podcast.

Jaclyn:

Yeah, and the cadence. I think it's worth it to say the cadence of our business is Sam is the numbers guy, he's the deal finder, he does all the number crunching and analyzing. I am, and you're a visionary too, no doubt, for sure. Yeah, calling me out right now. But you're not wrong, I did say that.

Sam:

And I could feel it.

Jaclyn:

It didn't mean it in a negative way. Look, we need each other. I think we are iron sharpens iron. I think where my skillset comes in is I have this big, grandiose vision for our brand becoming a whole lifestyle brand and a big part of that is talking about our lifestyle and I think the best way to do that is through a podcast and through video on YouTube and letting people get to know us and telling people what we're about and what we're excited about and what we're creating.

Jaclyn:

And so for me, it's like a no brainer to do a podcast, but it was also good for you to ask me that question, because it made me go. Ok, let me go back to basics here. This podcast does require time and energy, and I am the one that is most of the time writing the episodes and coming up with topics and making sure that the podcast editor has everything they need. I'm loading all the video, I'm manning the cameras and the lights and the production value of it, and so it is a lot of work, but to me it is an investment that may not monetarily pay off at this point, but it is an investment that will help us create the kind of brand and the kind of impact that I want Beckon to have.

Sam:

Yeah, and I totally understand that and you have always had a broader vision from like a branding standpoint and building that brand and where that is going. And I'm much more of a keep it simple, stupid kind of guy, like, does this input equal this output? And if, that's..

Jaclyn:

You like KPIs and spreadsheets and I can't get, like, I never want to see a spreadsheet again in my life. Well, that's not true. I like to know numbers, um, because I like to know where we're at all the time, but I'm not a like...

Sam:

Yeah, it just makes me think what, there have been many kind of uh, disagreements or arguments, or let's call it finding our frequency together, where you have been upset because you didn't feel like you had a good handle on where we were and what was going on with like finances and that sort of thing.

Jaclyn:

And you'd be like I have a spreadsheet.

Sam:

Yeah yeah, and then immediately your eyes glaze over the second that... Remember I used to always send you the spreadsheets for like budget and everything but this is like way back in the day.

Jaclyn:

Yeah, and now I do our, I do our personal budget, you do business budget

Sam:

Yeah, yeah, we definitely have kind of switched roles.

Jaclyn:

Yeah. I'm. I'm the budget hawk now.

Sam:

Well, it's a good thing.

Jaclyn:

I love it.

Sam:

It's like in Millionaire Next Door.

Jaclyn:

I want to be like how little can we spend this month?

Sam:

And that's fun to me.

Jaclyn:

I know.

Sam:

As long as I get to eat what I want that's fun to me.

Jaclyn:

Yeah, I think it might be fun for the listeners to hear what you spend the most money on and what I spend the most money on.

Sam:

Well, you definitely spend the most money on books and makeup, and...

Jaclyn:

I haven't bought a lot of makeup recently, though.

Sam:

Well, if we do over the last 15 years, it's been a lot of makeup.

Jaclyn:

Yeah, that's, probably true.

Sam:

And that's fine, but a lot of books and a lot of makeup, and then I eat a lot of food.

Jaclyn:

Yeah. He likes to have his specific meals.

Sam:

Yeah, and it's not like they're like, are expensive meals.

Jaclyn:

No, and neither of us are big, like, brand name, like I don't need to have fancy handbags. I like Parker Clay. They support women in Africa who have come out of the sex trade. And, like I, I like small businesses. It's just who I am.

Sam:

We've shared a car for the last four years, and so it's not, yeah, we're not extravagant by any means. Honestly, I think that the business has been the most expensive thing by far, by far. Back to those, back to those bad deals.

Jaclyn:

And then renovating our home is super expensive.

Sam:

Yeah, for sure. So, anyway, I think I challenged you on the podcast as far as, like, the marketing mechanism for the app, and I was hesitant to do so because I knew it was something that you've put a lot into. And I didn't really want to question that because I didn't want you to think that I don't value it and don't appreciate it. But at the same time...

Jaclyn:

And I'm like, you're being a little bish.

Sam:

Yeah, and then I said you were being a bish because you couldn't handle it, handle the questions, but uh, but it was something I needed to do, I needed to say, and it was a legitimate business question Like is, it's okay to say is this the right marketing.

Jaclyn:

And it was good, it was good for me to think about it too, and I'm still not sure that I have all the answers. I know that I want to continue doing this podcast because I feel like it's valuable, um, and I think for what we want to build it's valuable. But I think you asking me those questions is totally legitimate and it's always good to be challenged. I think we need to be going back to the drawing board every quarter and go what's working, what's not working? Where are we spending a ton of energy? Where are we wasting time? You know all of that, and then we can call each other a little bish and move on.

Sam:

Exactly.

Jaclyn:

And we say bish because in 2018, we went to Greece with some friends who live in Greece. They are Greek and they always say bish instead of bitch. And then, for beach, they say bitch instead of beach.

Sam:

Going to the bitch bish.

Jaclyn:

Yeah, that's exactly what they said. So Sam and I like to call each other little bishes.

Sam:

All done good fun.

Jaclyn:

All right. So what did we decide to do as a result?

Jaclyn:

I think we're going to keep searching for deals in a very methodical way and it's just a numbers game where we know the more deals you look at, the higher the likelihood that something will pan out. And then, as far as the podcast goes, we're going to keep creating the podcast for the foreseeable future because we think it's a value add and hopefully you think it's a value add and it is vertically integrated with the long-term vision of the brand that we're creating, all right, so conflict can lead to getting on the same frequency as your partner, whether that's in business or life. So I don't think. I think the major, major takeaway for this episode is don't shy away from conflict.

Sam:

Right

Jaclyn:

Be respectful. Sometimes things get heated and that's okay. To take a beat, take a minute, take a day, but then come back to the table and work it out, because if you're both in it, the end result is going to be better because there have been more thought and more intention put into it.

Sam:

Yeah, and again, our topic are business related, it's critical to have that. But it also applies to relationships in general.

Jaclyn:

Oh, 100%. Okay. What's the question that we're going to leave the audience with?

Sam:

What uncomfortable question would lead to clarity in your business.

Jaclyn:

All right. Thank you for listening everyone. Live on purpose.

Sam:

And live on frequency.

Jaclyn:

Thank you so much for listening to The Freq Show with Sam Thurmond and me, Jaclyn Steele Thurmond. We would love to connect with you via our website, beckonliving. com, and on social media.

Sam:

You can find us on Instagram and TikTok @Beckon Living, and you can join our email list to receive uplifting messages, podcast and business updates and discounts on high frequency products just for our Freqy community. Cheers to high frequency living!