The Freq Show

27. Letting go of the need for approval

• Sam Thurmond & Jaclyn Steele Thurmond • Season 1 • Episode 27

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Having ambition is a great thing.  It encourages free thought and action and momentum, but where is the line between healthy ambition and constantly trying to prove yourself?  In this episode, Jaclyn shares how she dabbled with letting go of this constant need to prove and how it transformed her approach to life and happiness.


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Jaclyn:

Welcome to The Freq Show. I am Jaclyn Steele Thurmond. I'm joined by my beautiful husband, Sam Thurmond.

Sam:

Hello, hello.

Jaclyn:

And today we are doing episode, I believe it's 27. I got my numbers mixed around the last couple of episodes because I've just been so excited to put out more content. Need for approval, and what I mean by that is external approval, but then also a negative desire to prove to yourself constantly, and what I mean by that is I have a tendency to finish something and then go but I need to do more, I need to do more, I need to do more, I need to do more, and it has, in the past, kept me in this constant state of burnout, feeling like I was behind and in a negative headspace, because I always felt like I needed to be doing more, more, more, more, more, more, more. And so today I want to explore this opportunity of letting go of the need for approval, whether it's to prove to yourself or to prove to others your value.

Sam:

Yeah, and there's a healthy balance there, right, because there is that side of it where growth comes from proving to yourself that you can do hard things and achieve and, you know, rise above what your previous limitations were. But I think, like you said, it's one that um one that drive kind of gets into a place that's unhealthy and doesn't allow you to to uh, ever be, you know, at peace.

Jaclyn:

Yeah, I think there are two ways of looking at this. There is ambition, which I think is a good thing, and that comes from wanting to find your own growth edge, from wanting to create, from wanting to leave your mark in this world and fulfill your own potential. That is super positive. I recommend that. That is not what we are talking about today. We're talking about proving yourself to yourself and to others, where the motivation behind that is actually rooted in a lack of self-worth, and you're trying to prove your value constantly, constantly, constantly, because you don't believe in your own value, or you want others to believe in your value because you don't believe in your own value. Does that make sense?

Sam:

In order for you to believe in your, your value, you require external affirmation.

Jaclyn:

Yeah, yeah, which is very unhealthy. And some of the ways that the desire to prove myself as manifest. Well, let me back up a little bit.

Jaclyn:

I grew up in a somewhat performance-based household. I don't blame my parents for this one iota, it's the way they grew up too. But for hard work I received attention when I got good grades. I received attention when I was good in sports. I got love and attention when I, you know, blah, blah, blah. I got love and attention.

Jaclyn:

And so it reinforced this very natural desire that I think I was born with to constantly feel like I needed to do more so that I could get attention and love. And my parents love me unconditionally, for sure. But just like any proud parent, when your kid does something cool or remarkable, you may be more boisterous in your affection or love for them, right? And I also, like so many people, suffered from a lack of self-worth in some areas. You know, for women especially, marketing is geared toward making us feel small, like we're not thin enough, we're not pretty enough, we're not enough enough, enough enough.

Jaclyn:

And so that desire to prove myself, combined with that intrinsic lower level of self-worth, really manifested itself in my life and in my thoughts in a negative way, and let me give you some examples of that. So some of my thoughts over the years and I've gotten so much better, but some of my thoughts over the years have been I'm so behind, I'm never going to catch up. I should be further by now. I should have been able to do this by now. I have to keep going. I have to keep driving. I have to keep like whipping myself into submission, so to speak, performing.

Sam:

Performing.

Jaclyn:

Performing, performing, performing, performing, performing, performing, and so that and you were a performer and I was a performer, literally.

Jaclyn:

I was a musician for many years, put on a lot of performances, which I'm so glad that I did, but again it reinforced that need to constantly be performing and proving myself. So if the thoughts were, I need to prove myself, I need to perform, I'm behind, I have to keep going. My actions manifested in this racing desire to constantly be doing something, be doing something, and I felt like if I wasn't in constant motion, whether that be creating a business, creating a song, doing a performance, making food something, something, something. I mean it got to the point where it was even hard for me to like sit down and watch a show without getting up five times during the show to do something. And I realized that that desire to improve myself, married with that insecurity that I was Not worthy, even made me feel like I had to perform around you, which you never, ever made me feel that way.

Jaclyn:

Lot of output that you would think I was lazy, or that you would think I was not a hard worker, which to me would have been at that time like the worst thing you could think of me. Yeah, did you have something? You

Sam:

I don't want to interrupt you if you're in your own flow.

Jaclyn:

Well, let me finish a couple of points. So, yeah, my thoughts were I have to keep performing, I'm behind, I have to keep going. Then my actions were like I never allowed myself to rest. Even if I was sitting, I was thinking about what I had to do next or something. And so my energy, as a result of my thoughts and my actions, it was such a rushed energy I always felt like I was between a rock and a hard place energy. I always felt like I was between a rock and a hard place, and then the feelings that resulted from that were a sense of shame, guilt and disconnect for not doing enough, slash being enough, and it created this like toxic soup that I lived in for way longer than I needed to, of shame and guilt and rushed energy, yet always being tired because I didn't allow myself to take breaks, and it resulted in dysregulation of my nervous system. So not only was my energy like not all that positive, but my nervous system got totally dysregulated. You know, your adrenal glands can become fatigued. Your pituitary gland, then, is affected. Actually, it's your pituitary gland that's affected first, then your adrenal glands, then possibly your thyroid, which I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's in 2020. Possibly your thyroid, which I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's in 2020.

Jaclyn:

So it was not only mentally affecting me. This desire to prove myself, to perform. It then manifested physically, and that's, I think, when I realized that it was a real problem to constantly feel like I needed to prove myself. I mean, even after having Roman, I was like I am not going to be one of those people that uses having a baby as an excuse for anything. So I'm going to put my makeup on, I'm going to go to the gym, I'm going to travel, I'm going to ski. I mean, we went skiing six weeks after my C-section and so I just kept myself in a state where I never allowed myself to stop and rest.

Sam:

Yeah.

Jaclyn:

And it manifested physically, mentally, spiritually, as just total burnout. Do you have anything you want to add to that?

Sam:

Yeah, I think it was something that you know whenever you, whenever you get married or you know you're in a long-term relationship with someone, you, you know that person beforehand. But all of these nuances, um, and both the dynamic of the relationship, but just the kind of deep emotional um, uh uh nuances, I guess, to use the word again uh, with that the individual come to light. Obviously, and you know I've certainly had my own things and my own quirks and um, that I either was or was not aware of. That you've had to, uh, either call out or bring to my attention or we've had to come together on with more understanding and and work through. But that was definitely one of those things with you that I think at times could cause conflict, because I didn't really understand your perspective, because I think I've, for most of my well, I'll say, my childhood and my young adult life not that I'm super old, but like my 20s I'll say I probably didn't have enough of that desire to prove things to other people or to myself.

Sam:

I think I always, you know, was confident and didn't really feel that desire so much to go above and beyond, and I, the opposite was true for me. I think, um, as I progressed as an adult, I found I found that ambition and that desire and, much in part, just whatever what I was doing and pursuing wasn't a good fit for me until a certain point and didn't inspire enough motivation in me to want to go out and really prove myself. I was kind of just taking things as they came. So that was I. I say all of that to say that I think that's what made it hard for me to understand what you were doing and where you were coming from and why you were thinking the way that you were thinking, and from a standpoint of, you know, put myself in your shoes and you have these feelings of more performance based approach to things and then seeking affirmation from those.

Sam:

I was one, much as you can tell by this podcast was less verbal than you are, so I just say fewer words.

Jaclyn:

I was just choked on my tea.

Sam:

So I just say less but two, you know I wasn't recognizing you the way that you had, how you wanted to be recognized.

Jaclyn:

He wasn't giving me any words of affirmation.

Sam:

Yeah, so, but for me there was like a disconnect because I didn't. I didn't feel like I needed those words of affirmation all the time, but not that you need them all the time, but didn't need those as much for my pursuits because I wasn't maybe looking for that recognition where you were.

Jaclyn:

Well, my family is also like lots of words of affirmation.

Sam:

Yeah.

Jaclyn:

I grew up in a household where words of affirmation were like a love language that my whole family spoke, and so then when we merged and became married and became one, it was hard for me, because you show your love through and very little words, yeah.

Sam:

Yeah, I was kind of like I, you know, you were always telling me how great I was and how what an amazing job I did at putting my socks away or whatever you know, whatever menial task it was and I was like I don't, you know, appreciate it, but I don't really know why you're giving me that, that affirmation or what you know. That's a funny example, but. But seriously, but I don't really know why you're giving me that, that affirmation or what you know.

Jaclyn:

That's a funny example, but but seriously, I think, the disconnect was um that, and it was both sides.

Sam:

It wasn't just that you were looking for, for affirmation. I needed to recognize that and be better at it with you, but a lot of times I didn't know that it was something that needed that affirmation or. I don't want to say warranted it, because that's all you know the value subjective and seeing that value, uh, in the other person. But, uh, you know all that to say. I think that's where the disconnect was relationally for us and something that we had to come together and work through and have a better understanding.

Jaclyn:

Yeah, and because you weren't verbal, I think I automatically assumed you didn't think I was doing enough.

Sam:

Just like disapproval.

Jaclyn:

Yeah

Sam:

Yeah.

Jaclyn:

Yeah, which now I know that that is absolutely not the case, but that's part of the marriage journey and that's also part of self-awareness, and I think what I've learned in our 16 years together is that I don't need the words of affirmation anymore because I've come so far, and this is how God works too. He allows you to be paired with somebody who is going to sharpen you and make you better, and I think over the course of our relationship, I've realized my affirmation and my worth comes from within, and while now I really love it when you give me words of affirmation, it's just a cherry on top, because I know I'm awesome.

Sam:

Right? Well, you are, and you should know that.

Jaclyn:

And everyone's awesome.

Sam:

And you do know that. Like I know, I know that you know that um in a very healthy, like, non-braggadocious way.

Sam:

But yeah, and I think the longer you're together with someone and you're both willing to work through those things, you're going to kind of you know, if I'm here on something and you're here or vice versa, we kind of bring each other together this way. Maybe there's a better way of looking at it.

Jaclyn:

And I think, what ultimately happened after I realized that my thoughts had spiraled, my actions had spiraled, my energy was out of whack, my feelings were out of whack, my nervous system was so dysregulated. This beautiful thought crept into my mind and it was what would it feel like to simply create out of overflow? So, instead of trying to constantly produce and perform out of this need to prove myself, what would it feel like to be able to create, just from joy and from the overflow, of living a life that I love? And when I changed my perspective on that, I feel like my energy shifted so dramatically that it had a ripple effect on the rest of my life. And I still struggle with this. I still go through stages where it's hard for me to stop and I still feel like I need to prove myself.

Jaclyn:

But the again that perspective shift of asking myself what would it feel like to create from the overflow caused such joy just in the thought, myself into submission and worrying about how others were going to perceive me and my actions.

Jaclyn:

It allowed me to have space to start doing things that brought me joy so cooking just for fun, reading novels I love to read in general, but for so long I thought novels were a waste of time, but now I read novels constantly. I had a stack of books here the other day. That was huge and it's just the books, the mix of novels and nonfiction, that I've read in like the last three months and it was like 12, 13 books probably. And so I found that that has given me so much joy and inspiration, allowing myself to focus on my family, creating beauty in our business and doing things so differently, because I am coming at it from a perspective of overflow rather than this where you're already kind of starting behind the starting line that energy of having to push, of having to perform, of having to prove to everyone and as a result, it's so funny and it's ironic. But it's made me more productive because I'm going into my day instead of at a negative 20, I'm at like a surplus of 20.

Sam:

Yeah. Well, you're expending less energy on worrying about what anybody else thinks and you're just focused on your own interest in what really kind of gets you going and fired up, what really kind of gets you going and fired up, and do you think that that's like, um, you know, we obviously look back on our lives and evaluate over time, but do you think that that's basically just maturity? You know, you care less you care less and less about. Uh, what other people think and then you just get to the point where you just don't really give a sh*t and you're kind of you free yourself of that aspect.

Jaclyn:

I think that's part of it. I would also say that as we've gotten older, I have found such comfort in my foundation, which my foundation is you. My foundation is our son, my foundation is our family and this home. And so what I've realized is because I have this in my faith in Jesus, in God, that everything is happening for me. And with that foundation, it allows me to create again from a place of overflow and it allows me the feeling that I have a safety net, that, no matter what happens, no matter how crazy my ideas are, what I put out into the world, I've got a safe place to land and I've got people that are going to love me no matter what. And I think that's the power of community and having real, authentic community and relationships in your life. So, yes, as you get older, you care less what other people think, but I think you also establish a foundation where it's safe to travel out of your comfort zone because you know you have such a warm, comfortable place to go back to.

Sam:

Well, you realize what's important, what's truly important in life and then, and that everything else is um, passing for the most part, you know they're. They're a lifelong friendship, certainly, Um, but everybody, everybody has their their own families and their own interests that they're pursuing. So it's it's just not the core foundation, like you said. So I think, just that recognition and what's important, what is not going away, no matter what, um you know, no matter what you do, whether you go out and you know, make yourself look stupid or make a bad decision, you don't have to worry about that because it's not going anywhere. You don't have to worry about that because it's not going anywhere, Um, and I just think, more and more it feels like that, and so that's why I just think that that's part of the progression of life, is, um, you find those things, you, you figure out that it's your faith in your family, Um, and that really enables you to be who you are. So I think it's just a progression.

Jaclyn:

Mm, hmm, when we live in a state of trying to prove ourselves, we think we are doing it to show other people how valuable we are, but really we are just trying to prove that value to ourselves. Mm hmm, we are just trying to prove that value to ourselves, and I want to say this to anyone who is listening please, please, allow these words to absorb into your soul. Your value is intrinsic. You were born with it, it's your birthright, and you don't have to prove yourself to anyone, especially not yourself. Everything that you need is already within you. It may just need to be unearthed, but it's there, the core is there, the seed is there, and so I'll close with a question who would you be, how would you think differently, if you let go of trying to prove yourself?

Jaclyn:

Thank you so much for listening to The Freq Show with Sam Thurmond and me, Jaclyn Steele Thurmond. We would love to connect with you via our website, beckonliving. com, and on social media.

Sam:

You can find us on Instagram and TikTok @Beckon Living and you can join our email list to receive uplifting messages, podcast and business updates and discounts on high frequency products just for our Freqy community. Cheers to high frequency living!